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TOPIC: Harry and Meghan

Harry and Meghan 1 month 4 weeks ago #3392065

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Have you not heard of parties celebrating the break up of people's marriages, ("I'm just bringing things forward a little" ).

Who would you blame if Meghan and Harry were to split one day, Thomas Markle? I would suggest Thomas Markle assertion and exhorting his daughter should live up to the royal role she married into, might assist her in committing herself to a marriage. .

Harry doesn't look that great in my view because of a number of his recent actions and pronouncement, and "if" he did ask Thomas Markles permission to marry Meghan why did he not do so in person, and treat the man with at least some respect?



No I havent heard of that.

I have heard of people celebrating their own final divorce or of people being glad to see someone escape from an abusive relationship - but hope and celebrate other people splitting up?? No.

I wouldnt expect him to ask permission - what century are we in?? Adults make their own decisions, women dont need their fathers permission.

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 4 weeks ago #3392278

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grahamg wrote:

Vienna wrote:

grahamg wrote:

Aida wrote:

JUJO wrote:

Vienna wrote:
JUJO Wrote: I think he (Thomas Markle) is at his wits end,not knowing what else to do.

Vienna wrote:
I think the problem is of his own making, and I doubt that Harry and Meghan are to blame in any way.



Heartbreaking, to think it has come to this, if they had all come together much earlier and discussed everything,things would never have been this bad,This is their own personal business,that should be discussed between them all,not for the whole world to know everything.


"On his own admission Meghan has helped her father out financially on occasions."

Break
"Maybe she finds him embarrassing. Who knows? He accused H and M of cheapening the institute of the Royal Family."

Break
"So what is he doing by washing dirty linen in public just because he has been rebuffed. Maybe he is at his wits end and this is attention seeking behaviour."
Break


Grahamg wrote:
You know I have a different take on all this, and I would like to see more widespread support for Thomas Markle's position, (maybe this wont happen until after he's dead, and Meghan and Harry have split and there is acrimony between the two of them - something to look forward to there!!!!! ).

However, looking solely at Harry's part in the debacle between Meghan and her dad, he has only heard one side of the story hasn't he, or chosen to hear only one side(?). There are many men ready to jump to conclusions when hearing the story put out by a beautiful woman, and Harry looks like another one, and I doubt he's really interested so much in the truth, as in supporting his then girlfriend and now wife, and mother to his child (he choose not to go to see Meghan's dad before announcing the engagement didn't he, whilst Prince Charles in his day, actually asked permission for Earl Spencer to marry Diana didn't he).

I maybe foolishly think we all play a part in the way generally decent dads, or at least those who at one time did all they felt they could and certainly loved their children, are treated, because societal attitudes do have a bearing here. Meghan Markle obviously considers her public image a great deal, and "if I had my way", she would not only receive direct criticism for her part in the breakdown of relations with her father, but be asked to questions as to why she chooses to be heartless. I know the young woman has a lot on her plate, and probably is feeling wounded right now, but if heredity means anything, then any character flaws in the father may well yet be shown in his child, and there will be a worldwide audience, should she continue her forthcoming court battle with the newspapers.


Vienna wrote:
I believe there was more widespread support for Thomas Markle before the latest interview was shown on TV recently.
Going by comments posted on social media it was clear that many of his supporters had turned against him because of personal accusations made against his daughter, and Harry in front of millions of people.

Are you really looking forward to seeing a possible break-up of Harry and Meghan's marriage?
I'm not, and I doubt most people would want to see it either.
They are a couple barely married two years, with a young child - I wouldn't want that to happen to any couple, and the fact that they're royal, should make no difference.

By the way, I remember Thomas Markle saying that Harry did in fact ask his permission to marry Meghan.


Have you not heard of parties celebrating the break up of people's marriages, ("I'm just bringing things forward a little" ).

Who would you blame if Meghan and Harry were to split one day, Thomas Markle? I would suggest Thomas Markle assertion and exhorting his daughter should live up to the royal role she married into, might assist her in committing herself to a marriage. .

Harry doesn't look that great in my view because of a number of his recent actions and pronouncement, and "if" he did ask Thomas Markles permission to marry Meghan why did he not do so in person, and treat the man with at least some respect?



I'm actually quite tired of hearing the name Thomas Markle to be honest.
Let him get on with his own life, and Harry and Meghan with theirs.
If they split up it would be their own business and certainly not Thomas Markles or anyone else.
No reason to think that Meghan has not committed herself to the marriage.

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Better three hours too soon, than a minute too late..

Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392332

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Vienna wrote:

grahamg wrote: [

Grahamg wrote:
Have you not heard of parties celebrating the break up of people's marriages, ("I'm just bringing things forward a little" ).

Who would you blame if Meghan and Harry were to split one day, Thomas Markle? I would suggest Thomas Markle assertion and exhorting his daughter should live up to the royal role she married into, might assist her in committing herself to a marriage. .

Harry doesn't look that great in my view because of a number of his recent actions and pronouncement, and "if" he did ask Thomas Markles permission to marry Meghan why did he not do so in person, and treat the man with at least some respect?


Vienna wrote:
I'm actually quite tired of hearing the name Thomas Markle to be honest.
Let him get on with his own life, and Harry and Meghan with theirs.
If they split up it would be their own business and certainly not Thomas Markles or anyone else.
No reason to think that Meghan has not committed herself to the marriage.


This used to be relevant when considering marriage didn't it, "Till death of do part".

Nowadays I can testify that at least one young woman I know takes the view that instead of "Till death us do part", you can substitute "We will remain married until I stop being happy with you" (maybe prefer another or am bored?).

I'd say therefore that there is some reason to question whether or not couples are truly committed to one another. .

I not the way Thomas Markle is talked about as having nothing more of interest or influence upon his daughter as any man in the street, demoting him to a "sperm donor" in terms of significance in her life.

Thomas Markle is not the best example of a father who is being ill treated by his child/children, but for now he'll have to do, and I'd suggest there are worse men out there(?).

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" springs to mind somehow. :dry: .
The following user(s) said Well Said: Annette

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392451

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You just think he is being ill treated because you automatically take the fathers side Graham - have you ever considered you have a clouded view on this?

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392506

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Vegemite Kid wrote:

Grahamg wrote: Have you not heard of parties celebrating the break up of people's marriages, ("I'm just bringing things forward a little" ).

Who would you blame if Meghan and Harry were to split one day, Thomas Markle? I would suggest Thomas Markle assertion and exhorting his daughter should live up to the royal role she married into, might assist her in committing herself to a marriage. .

Harry doesn't look that great in my view because of a number of his recent actions and pronouncement, and "if" he did ask Thomas Markles permission to marry Meghan why did he not do so in person, and treat the man with at least some respect?


Vegemite Kid wrote:
No I havent heard of that.

I have heard of people celebrating their own final divorce or of people being glad to see someone escape from an abusive relationship - but hope and celebrate other people splitting up?? No.

I wouldnt expect him to ask permission - what century are we in?? Adults make their own decisions, women dont need their fathers permission.

Vegemite Kid wrote:
You just think he is being ill treated because you automatically take the fathers side Graham - have you ever considered you have a clouded view on this?


It would be fair to say almost all members or former members of any of the father's rights groups, or parents/grandparents groups, such as "GrandparentsApart" are somewhat biased towards the promotion of the rights of parents/grandparents, especially as in this country right now their are no legal rights in relation to the child, only "Common law rights (i.e. not rights written into statute, according to Clem Henricson of the National Parenting Institute).

However, just as the "anit-Nazi League" is against Nazism, being against on the whole the sidelining and exclusion of decent parents doesn't necessarily make members of fathers/parents/grandparents groups wrong.

Discussing whether Thomas Markle should have been asked to give his permission to his daughter marrying Harry it was said Harry did ask, albeit over the telephone, (at Meghan's age the need for asking permission back when a father could deny permission would not have applied anyway, because over twenty one years of age it didn't apply, so there would have been no need for H & M to head for Gretna Green). In my view the relevance of this in Harry and Meghan's case is in relation to the extraordinary circumstances of marrying into the royal family, with the worldwide interest, and constitutional role of the monarchy. H & M were never really going to head or a registry office to get married with just a couple of witnesses present were they, so asking Thomas Markle what he might think of the enormous change about to occur in his family has slightly more implications than for the rest of us. .
Finally those so ready to condemn Thomas Markle do provide evidence of the need to increase the rights or parents and grandparents to at least a rebuttable, in order to counter the prejudice abroad in society against natural parents:

www.google.com/search?q=rebuttable+presu...imgrc=T8LhyyGs32NRxM :

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392509

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Asking permission for adults to marry seems entirely a moot point to me.

No I don't think condemnation of Mr Markle has anything to do with your usual soap box, but to do with his own words and behaviour - although I concede part of that is down to the press egging him on to share things which he should of kept private.

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392539

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Vegemite Kid wrote:
Asking permission for adults to marry seems entirely a moot point to me.

No I don't think condemnation of Mr Markle has anything to do with your usual soap box, but to do with his own words and behaviour - although I concede part of that is down to the press egging him on to share things which he should of kept private.


I think you're argument above lets itself or you down, and reveals your own prejudices.

I've listened to the coverage on UK radio and tv saying exactly the opposite thing in relation to the case Meghan and Harry are bringing against "The Mail on Sunday" newspaper. The commentator or media expert asked for their views said they thought the public perception of Harry and Meghan does have an influence upon the way a court might behave, beyond the strict interpretation of the law (there is a "public interest" defence the newspaper will try to assert of course).

Putting that to one side, you're wish to tell Thomas Markle what he should or shouldn't do in relation to his private life, echoes the way everyone up to Harry Windsor himself tried to tell the man how to live his life, and is frankly outrageous. In your case your views wont reach Thomas Markle will they, so you're excused, but the attitude people even before the press so many wish to criticise get involved, is revealing.

It asks the question "Am I my brother's keeper"?

If Thomas Markle is supposed to look over his back to whatever you and a whole host of us think is appropriate to say or do towards his own now grown up daughter, then that in my view precludes or damages close personal relationships (excluding any questions surrounding child abuse, which no one is alleging against Thomas Markle thankfully). The relationship between you and your child, my relationship with my child, and everyone else's such relationship depends to a large extent upon both the parent and their child feeling free to say whatever is in their minds, whether it be as a parent to try to mould their child a little to try to encourage them to grow up a little less selfish or whatever it might be.

A Canadian lawyer called Goldwater pointed out the need for privacy in close interpersonal relationships, and in my view he was thinking of something similar when he tried to emphasise this need for privacy. Thomas Markle does not seem to be a totally weak character prepared to back down from saying what he thinks, and that includes criticising his own child, or her husband where he believs it fair to do so, and whether or not I'm biased, I admire him for the guts to still do it in the face of adverse press, and a whole host of people wishing to condemn him.

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392582

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I think you're argument above lets itself or you down, and reveals your own prejudices.


well thats interesting - because I was thinking same thing about your stance.

What prejudice do you think I have?

free to say what you want isnt the same as wisdom to know when to say it - or when to say it privately and not to the worlds press.

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Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392726

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Can we please discuss the topic without getting personal.

Thank you.

Pats. admin.

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Happy to help.

Harry and Meghan 1 month 3 weeks ago #3392739

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I'd prefer to discuss their charitable work.

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