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TOPIC: Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal.

Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083774

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Morganman wrote: Lets suppose for the sake of an example a well dressed gentleman walks into any baker's shop and says
"I need a cake to be baked for our next week gathering of the KKK and we want it to have a couple of semi burnt crosses on it with a slogan about our movement

I hope the people who say they are for open for business and must do whatever it is that they do can take note. You may even get a thank you note from the organization with a smiling picture of you and your punter in the paper. That will be very good advertising your business .....nice. I know those folks will start writing all kinds of justification for what they say

My dad had a slogan " before you engage your tongue you need to depress the clutch in the brain.....I guess those guys drive an automatic and have no clue about clutch

Let me tell you something that you did not hear about A photographer who refused to take pictures in a wedding won the court case based on the following
"I am an artist and what I do is an art and I do that for the sake of art and I do not see any artistic value in doing what I am being asked to do " She won the case as she should have. You did not hear about it because it was not convenient for the press to report.






You are using a hate group as a poor example (accompanied by an even weaker argument) of what should/ should not be honored by business B)

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083777

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Serena77 wrote: Any other businesses I can understand serving anyone, cuz you're not going to be asking questions as to their sexual orientation, or any other personal values. A cake has to be made to order and symbolized personally with a special "insignia" specifically dealing with their sexual orientation. The business owners
had to "engage" the couple and compromise their own personal convictions. They decided against it.
Their business...their right. Common sense did prevail here..at last!






The cake represents the buyer, not the baker/ business B) So if you are a Christian baker, all others of differing beliefs/ ideology must go elsewhere B) If this is so, they should advertise they are Christians, and serve only Christians B)

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Last edit: by senile1.

Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083782

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SP12 wrote:

Rain wrote: It's 20 years tomorrow since Matthew Shepard died.

He was a 21 year old student from Wyoming. He was a gentle person of slight build and small stature. He was driven to a remote area by two men, beaten, tortured, tied to a fence and left to die. Matthew was killed because he was gay.

The singer Melissa Etheridge wrote a song called Sacrecrow about this crime, so called because the cyclist who found him thought he was a scarecrow at first.

You might not think this has much to do with the law saying it is alright to refuse baking a cake. But it does.

If the law gives out the message that gay people are inferior and are LESSER than everybody else it's telling people it's okay to treat gay people badly.

If you see someone being refused service in a shop because of their sexuality, it says to you it's okay to look down on them. It says it's okay to treat them differently. It says they are not equal to you.

What next?

Is it okay to call them names?

Is it okay to hit them?

Is it okay to kill them?

A proportion of people are gay. This has been known for a long, long time. It's high time society got over this fact and took a mature attitude that we are all unique and have our differences.

We are tall, we are short, we are dark, we are fair. Blue eyed, brown eyed. And yes; some of us are gay.

Shame on that judge who made this decision. He set society back into the dark days again and gave cart blanche to the gay bashers.

Remembering Matthew Shepard today and all those who weren't just refused service, they were refused the right to be treated as human...


They were not refused service because they were gay - the bakers refused to bake a cake with a slogan which went against their beliefs. Would you expect a Jewish baker to make a cake for a customer showing a nazi symbol? Would you expect a gay person to have to accept an order to make a banner protesting against gay rights?






Would you expect a Jewish baker to make a cake for a customer showing a nazi symbol? Would you expect a gay person to have to accept an order to make a banner protesting against gay rights?


These examples do even remotely represent this case, you are speaking of a business honoring a request to make a cake to represent messages of hate/ discrimination, completely different B)

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Last edit: by senile1.

Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083801

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Get it right good people. The only people you are allowed to put down are white heterosexual Christian males.
What a lot of hypocritical remarks.At least I’m honest.

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083894

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Rhett1 wrote: Get it right good people. The only people you are allowed to put down are white heterosexual Christian males.
What a lot of hypocritical remarks.At least I’m honest.





Who is putting down heterosexual Christian males, lest you misread, the debate is about the right of refusal of service because ideological / philosophical, / lifestyle differences, you must be in the wrong thread B) Or is this just another weak excuse offered in the defense of discriminatory practices B)

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083960

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I've read the entire thread and nowhere has the actual ruling of the court been mentioned...

The case was MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP, LTD., ET AL. v. COLORADO CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION ET AL.
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf

The origin of the case was the refusal of baking a cake for a gay couple, which led them to file suit with the Colorado Civil Rights Commisson. That commission ruled in favor of the gay couple. HOWEVER, they couldn't just rule in favor, but rather felt the need to...

That consideration was compromised, however, by the Commission’s treatment of Phillips’ case, which showed elements of a clear and impermissible hostility toward the sincere religious beliefs motivating his objection. As the record shows, some of the commissioners at the Commission’s formal, public hearings endorsed the view that
religious beliefs cannot legitimately be carried into the public sphere or commercial domain, disparaged Phillips’ faith as despicable and characterized it as merely rhetorical, and compared his invocation of his sincerely held religious beliefs to defenses of slavery and the Holocaust. No commissioners objected to the comments. Nor were they
mentioned in the later state-court ruling or disavowed in the briefs filed here. The comments thus cast doubt on the fairness and impartiality of the Commission’s adjudication of Phillips’ case.


The obvious bias of the commission is what led SCOTUS to overturn by 7-2. The subject of whether a bakery could refuse service to a gay couple was not determined in this court ruling. It was, however, made clear that had not the commission displayed such obvious bias, the original commission ruling would have been upheld.

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3083997

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Rhett1 wrote: Get it right good people. The only people you are allowed to put down are white heterosexual Christian males.
What a lot of hypocritical remarks.At least I’m honest.


I'm not seeing any hypocrisy or dishonesty from anyone else - please explain where any comments are that.
People aren't dishonest just because they don't agree with you. :S

And the comment about only being able to put down white hetrosexual Christian males is just silly - discrimination by anyone isn't ok.
The following user(s) said Well Said: senile1

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3084947

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Rhett1 wrote: Get it right good people. The only people you are allowed to put down are white heterosexual Christian males.
What a lot of hypocritical remarks.At least I’m honest.


The point being made here is that the above societal group is often the subject of a joke or a cartoon or a humorous story yet nobody shouts prejudice or discrimination in these cases. Why? Probably because they are not seen as a minority group. Probably because this group understands that a joke told against it is just that.....a joke. Not an insult, not a slur on their religion or nationality.

To those who say that service providers are obliged to provide that service come what may, in the U.K. there are several grounds for refusal, age and safety being the two most obvious. It is for safety reasons that cabin crew can have drunken, rowdy passengers removed, owners of licensed premises can refuse to serve anyone who they consider to have drunk enough alcohol to be a disruptive presence, fairground operators can place age and height restrictions on certain rides, surgeons can refuse to operate on people whose BMI is over a certain figure. All these examples involve refusing services but none of them involve ethnicity, religion, sexuality or disability.

It might have been better if the bakers had simply said that they could not fulfil the order requested by the date it was required and left their religious beliefs out of it as all they have really done is to provide a tool which has been used to great effect to promote gay marriage in a country where it is unlawful.

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3084967

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senile1 wrote:

Rhett1 wrote: Get it right good people. The only people you are allowed to put down are white heterosexual Christian males.
What a lot of hypocritical remarks.At least I’m honest.





Who is putting down heterosexual Christian males, lest you misread, the debate is about the right of refusal of service because ideological / philosophical, / lifestyle differences, you must be in the wrong thread B) Or is this just another weak excuse offered in the defense of discriminatory practices B)


Sounds to me like someone referring to the sleazy Kavanaugh, and the women who are exposing him for the sleazeball that he was/is.
The following user(s) said Well Said: senile1

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Bakery in "gay cake" wins Supreme Court Appeal. 1 year 1 month ago #3085060

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bryoney wrote: ...... (1) It might have been better if the bakers had simply said that they could not fulfil the order requested by the date it was required and left their religious beliefs out of it as
(2) all they have really done is to provide a tool which has been used to great effect to promote gay marriage in a country where it is unlawful.

Bryoney, I reckon (for what it's worth) that you're sorta right on both counts.
"It might have been better ..." but they would have to have lied (very un-christian ?) and they would have been denied their 15 minutes of fame and the opportunity to "witness" or whatever these fundies call it.

And yep, they've managed to focus attention on state-sponsored discrimination and intolerance - how good is THAT !!!

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