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TOPIC: Brexit:

Brexit: 6 months 10 hours ago #3152460

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A 'marshmallow' brexit? Gove our next PM ? Boris = toast ?
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Brexit: 6 months 10 hours ago #3152461

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Aida wrote: A 'marshmallow' brexit? Gove our next PM ? Boris = toast ?



Gove.
Was his performance serious?
God help us.

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Last edit: by Davegem.

Brexit: 6 months 6 hours ago #3152556

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Interesting chatter on Naked Capitalism.. some of these comments are Brits,
shtove
January 16, 2019 at 8:07 am
From the horse’s mouth: curia.europa.eu/juri…
“Article 50 TEU must be interpreted as meaning that, where a Member State has notified the European Council, in accordance with that article, of its intention to withdraw from the European Union, that article allows that Member State — for as long as a withdrawal agreement concluded between that Member State and the European Union has not entered into force or, if no such agreement has been concluded, for as long as the two-year period laid down in Article 50(3) TEU, possibly extended in accordance with that paragraph, has not expired — to revoke that notification unilaterally, in an unequivocal and unconditional manner, by a notice addressed to the European Council in writing, after the Member State concerned has taken the revocation decision in accordance with its constitutional requirements. The purpose of that revocation is to confirm the EU membership of the Member State concerned under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State, and that revocation brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.”
No requirement of good faith. No requirement, contrary to what the AG stated in parliament yesterday, to provide evidence that the UK would be cancelling its departure from the EU – the Art.50 procedure ends automatically on receipt of a valid notice. And, in my view, no requirement to get parliament’s permission, since the principle in the Miller case, on rights created by parliament, is irrelevant. So May can do it in an instant all by herself. That’s a heavy load.
ps. May can also alter the exit day in the Withdrawal Act by herself, but the question is whether she can seek the necessary extension without parliament’s permission – highly debatable. I could see her getting the extensions, then revoking.
######
PlutoniumKun
I don’t believe that May can issue an A-50 withdrawal notice herself, because it would contrary to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act. This Act would have to be rescinded, and only Parliament can do that.

#####
A little further down is this exchange,
Hayek's Heelbiter
January 16, 2019 at 8:25 am
Wait a minute, wasn’t the Referendum a clear exercise of “democratic process”? Why is there even discussion of a second referendum?
What is democratic about elected rule-makers going against the will of the people?
Or is it me who’s living in Alice-in-Wonderland?

PlutoniumKun
January 16, 2019 at 9:27 am
The Referendum was always ‘advisory’ because there is nothing within the British constitution that allows for referenda. In the UK system, Parliament is Sovereign, that means it always has the last word. Parliament is elected too of course.
You might just as well argue that the Referendum should be rescinded because the previous Referendum (the one that led to EU membership) was the will of the people.

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Brexit: 6 months 3 hours ago #3152611

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I was listening to an interview with Frans Timmermans, VP European Council, on their response now that the deal had been voted down. How much more measured and sensible he was compared to all the interviews I have heard with his UK counterparts. It's no wonder they feel they have achieved their aims and the UK had not, most notably it is clear they had a well established understanding of what those aims were and set out with determination to achieve them. What's more, and perhaps importantly, he was speaking with the obvious support of the rest of the EU, if there was a disconnected view on what they were to undertake it certainly didn't show through publicly.

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Last edit: by KayyGee.

Brexit: 6 months 3 hours ago #3152618

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KayyGee wrote:
I was listening to an interview with Frans Timmermans, VP European Council, on their response now that the deal had been voted down. How much more measured and sensible he was compared to all the interviews I have heard with his UK counterparts. It's no wonder they feel they have achieved their aims and the UK had not, most notably it is clear they had awell established understanding of what those aims were and set out with determination to achieve them. What's more, and perhaps importantly, he was speaking with the obvious support of the rest of the EU, if there was a disconnected view on what they were to undertake it certainly didn't show through publicly.


I have not heard what this man has to say yet, but accept your account of it.

There seems to be a push here to rule out a "no deal" brexit, and even our chancellor Phillip Hammond is said to support this. The pound rallying slightly after Theresa May's deal was voted down suggests some believe arrangements will somehow be arrived at to calm market fears.

The hard brexit lobby would seem to be the ones being marginalised the most, by the failure of the prime ministers deal, but they obviously couldn't support it given their views, though they may end up with even less than that deal soon.

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Brexit: 6 months 3 hours ago #3152626

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I would appreciate your view, here is the interview I mentioned above:

Frans Timmerman

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Brexit: 6 months 1 hour ago #3152655

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Isn’t it about time Corbyn played ball instead of adding to the dilemma .
Yes I understand in doing so he would alienate many of the Labour Party remainers.
However his crumbling street cred would certainly improve .

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Last edit: by Rips.

Brexit: 6 months 28 minutes ago #3152665

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Rips wrote: Isn’t it about time Corbyn played ball instead of adding to the dilemma .
Yes I understand in doing so he would alienate many of the Labour Party remainers.
However his crumbling street cred would certainly improve .


Does he have a backbone I ask myself

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Brexit: 6 months 23 minutes ago #3152669

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May just about made it, with only 8 votes.

By votes that were given to her because, as one of her party said:"I dont like her ideas at all, but we will have to stand together as a party and so I will vote for mrs. May".

To me that sounds as if this gentleman did not have the good of the country in his mind, but merely the good of his party.

Yes, the Tories reject new elections, because they know full well they would not survive.

But what of the people?

Why are they so against a new referendum, where people can vote for or against brexit?
Are the frightened they wont survive it, because now, as opposed to the first time, the people know what a brexit would mean and what it is all about?

May said she would not accept a ´hard brexit´.
Maybe she should have spent the last two years thinking about a reasonable acceptable brexit, instead of hammering on what she wants, trying to force the EU in accepting it?

Does she really think the United Kingdom is still the worldempire it once was?

Does she really think she can force the EU in giving her more time?

Does she really think the EU would accept her idea of still having all the benefits of a EU-member without the obligations that come with it?

How will she get her country out of the mess she dumped it in?
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LEAVER DEA AS SLAEF !

Brexit: 5 months 4 weeks ago #3152717

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I can`t understand why the majority of members of Parliament want no deal taking off the table in the negotiations with the EU. I am 73 years old and still a member of a union today. I was on the works committee from the age of 18 and was shop steward for 5 years. One of the main levers we had during negotiations was withdrawal of labour as a last resort. Nobody wanted to use this but at times it was the only thing we could resort to in the case of deadlock. If the management refused to come to some agreement the last resort was to walk out of the meetings and go on strike. If the management were intransigent and just refused to give any ground the threat of their workers walking out usually brought everybody to their senses. Most politicians in Parliament have never had any experience in negotiations and are career politicians who haven`t been on a workshop floor in their life. Also I am really annoyed with Jeremy Corbyn keep saying Labour has the largest membership in Europe, but a majority of them are Momentum members. He forgets that it is the Labour voters he needs to get on side and not just the Momentum lead Labour membership. To me Jeremy Corbyn has only ever been a protest politician who only ever opposes and never comes up with solutions. Jeremy Corbyn has refused to meet with Theresa May to take up her offer of meeting heads of the other party’s unless she takes the No Deal off the table. He should go into these meetings with an open mind and there should not be anything ruled out. If the Remainers would have accepted the result of the Referendum and all got behind the Government we would have had a stronger hand and would not have ended up in this chaos we have now. What the Remainers should think about is, that if the vote of the Referendum was to remain in the EU what would they think if the leavers would have carried on like they have to try to reverse the result?
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